Geomancy Key Life

Tell us your ideas
Post Reply
took2summit
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 12:07 am

Geomancy Key Life

Post by took2summit » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:15 am

OK - I know everyone has seen me talking about it but it's time to formalize the idea. At first glance, people may think this idea is broken, but please listen, hear me out, think about it before you formulate an opinion. I've been thinking about this idea for over a week now and the more I think about it the more I think it absolutely needs to be implemented. I will start with my idea, and then I will list all the problems I think it solves, as well as the potential downsides.

The idea is to give geomancy keys 1 hour of life for every 100m deep the key is. It will not save the geo, but rather every time you activate the key it will create a brand new geo with a brand new set of mobs and everything else.

Problems it solves:
1. Disconnects - nothing is worse than starting a geo and disconnecting. This literally makes me not want to play anymore that night whenever it happens.
2. Time Blocking - the higher your dlvl, the more you need to time block. My skillers now take 2.5 hours to complete and they are very close to growing in size which will easily push me over 3 hours. Back when I first started playing BM in highschool/college this wasn't an issue, I could go hard with no issues. Now I am an adult with a job, a marriage, a mortgage, a family, and I am sure most of us are as well. I can easily find 30-60 minute time blocks but finding 3 hours is becoming increasingly difficult to do. It would be great to be able to hop in and out of a geo all night long while I am taking care of chores around the house and whatever else.
3. Looters - The biggest issue with looters is the issue above I just mentioned, time blocking. I am now dlvl 360 and would need to create a 3600m deep skeleton looter for my dlvl, this would take north of 12 hours to clear. However, if the key had 36 hours of life, I could hop in and out of the skeleton looter over the next 36 hours. BTW over a 36 hour period I will still likely not spend a total of 12 hours, but at least it's more feasible. The other main issue with looters is getting lost in such a massive geo that's 50x50+. Now if you are lost you can just leave and go back into a new one. This helps bring balance to looters in the discussion of skillers vs looters (currently skillers are vastly preferred over looters).

Potential issues that knee-jerk reactions make you consider:
1. But now 1 key can be cleared many times breaking the gold economy - let's start with skillers. You could literally give me 100 dlvl 360 skillers today and I would merchant all 100 of them. I would not run the gems from them, and I would not try and find vagabonds. It would be far more efficient for me to just make new 10 pointers. My current dlvl the depth is about 400, this would make the key last 4 hours. After clearing a skiller for 2.5 hours and my 10 pointers become 6 pointers, I would most certainly not jump into a new 6 point skiller to save a couple gems, I will just make a new one. However, if I got busy at home, got disconnected, or whatever and only got 0-1 dlvl from it, I have the option to jump back in and get the appropriate skilling from it. Now for looters, a 3600m depth skeleton geo would take north of 12 hours to clear normally. if over a 36 hour window someone wanted to marathon run a skeleton geo for more than 12 hours to save a couple gems, by all means go for it! I can promise you this will not break the gold economy. No one is going to go full crazy and spend 36 hours farming 1 key over and over again, and if they do, they deserve the extra little bit of gold vs saving a few gems.
2. But you would be able to run gems over and over - Again, like I said before, even if I had 100 keys today I would run exactly 0 of them to get the gem. It would simply be a huge waste of my time and would be far better to do 10 point skiller and get the ultimate gem at the end. As it stands right now I can make ultimate gem runners using 2 gems. So this would save 2 gems over a long period of time, but again, I would never run ultimate gems even if I had unlimited keys today. I doubt anyone else would either, and if they do, they are not being efficient with their time. Happy to show the math if anyone wants to see it.
3. But you could hunt vagabonds - Yes, but vagabond hunting inefficiency has never been about the cost of the key and has always been about the time spent looking for a vagabond in comparison to the other available methods. I can assure you anyone that would be hunting vagabonds over and over again would be wasting their time and there are far more efficient ways to get drops currently in game. You can not go in a deeper spirit geo than your dlvl allows to hunt vagabonds. You will die, trust me, I've tried, even with whites on a blade. At my dlvl skillers would take 10-15 minutes to check both vagabond spots, at a 20% chance of vagabond we are talking about roughly an hour to get 36 drops off a vagabond. I can farm 6m gold in an hour in my skiller just by killing tigers and use that gold to buy 120 amulets. If anyone wants to hunt vagabonds in skillers, let them! It's a gigantic waste of time. I think it goes without saying, but a 3600m skeleton geo would take significantly longer to check both vagabond spots, probably around 35-45 minutes. Not only is the geo multiples larger but you can't just run straight through. Meaning 3 hours or so on average to find a vagabond. But again, part of this recommendation is to bring looters closer to skillers in desirability.

Anyone that says this suggestion is unbalanced has never been dlvl 400+ and had to commit 3+ hour timeblocks every time you want to play the game. This suggestion does not make the game easier, it makes more it more bareable and would allow for greater gameplay overall. Currently I don't log in everynight that I don't have 3 hours to spare (which unfortunately lately is most nights). I would be on a LOT more if I could hop on for 30 minutes kill some skeletons and hop off. I believe other people would as well. I can assure you no one is going to get rich from this being implemented. No one will grind geos more than they currently do just because they can save a gem or two. For anyone that says they would, I have 400 gems currently and growing, I'd be happy to spare you some anytime you want.

POTUS
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:28 pm

Re: Geomancy Key Life

Post by POTUS » Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:25 pm

This is an a+ idea and deserves to be implemented in the test.

iresh
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:51 am

Re: Geomancy Key Life

Post by iresh » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:09 pm

if not this idea maybe just taking the timer out of geos that requires very little scripting. and it only not catches the event that you was disconnected due to bad net.

zaphod77
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:14 am

Re: Geomancy Key Life

Post by zaphod77 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:02 am

it's not skillers that is the worry with being able to restart the geo for free and get all the monsters back.

it's LOOTERS. which are much more expensive to craft.

is it real time? or logged in time? only real time whether logged in or not can currently be stored on an item.

if this is implemented for looters. what people will do is keep killing monsters until they get lost or otherwise separated from the monsters they are looking for, then restart. repeatedly.

Since the timer is well beyond the amount if time it would take to clear it in one shot (otherwise it would be pointless), this would result in a gathering a lot more loot for your beads+gems. mostyl lke 5 to 10 times as much.

took2summit
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 12:07 am

Re: Geomancy Key Life

Post by took2summit » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:15 pm

Zaphod everything you just listed as a problem, is exactly why I suggested it. I gave clear examples of everything you just brought up. One was a 3k skeleton geo takes about 10 hours to clear and the key would last 30 hours. If someone wanted to run 1 key over and over for 30 straight hours, they deserve all the loot they can get. Let's be honest with ourselves, who's even going to run looters for more than 10 hours over a 30 hour period? And like I said, if they do, good for them, they deserve to save a couple of gems imo. The whole point of the suggestion is precisely so you can spread a 10 hour looter clear over a 30 hour window. Afterall, how many of us can actually time block 10 hour windows?

POTUS
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:28 pm

Re: Geomancy Key Life

Post by POTUS » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:08 pm

I still agree with took here. If you can face melt for 10 hours good for you get your money. But I can’t. I’m not going to to spend the cash to make looters if I can’t finish them, if I can’t finish them I’m at a disadvantage. The game should be just as fun and accessible to casuals and hardcores alike. As it stands in my life, amidst being a father of 3, all under 5, and everything that comes with managing a house and schedules, I can fit an hour or two in for gaming. And I choose bm. Took has made a very fine and convincing argument and I haven’t seen anything that would counter it. Of course the timer would run on real time and not logged time. Just like totems. And of course if you can face a geo for 30 hours and save on the cost of making 2 more, what’s the real difference there. Good for you and your never ending coffee pot. This is a great idea. Don’t be the one to stand in the way of progress because it’ll be you that kills the game.

Haddassah
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:16 pm

Re: Geomancy Key Life

Post by Haddassah » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:14 pm

I would love to see the disconnect issue solved and the timer idea would work great. The main reason I'm killing in Lab 3 right now is due to being DC'ed from my geos not even half way through and yes I know if I get Dc'ed from lab 3 I have to go back but the cost to get there is almost nothing.

But like what Bathroy said the idea for changes need to make the game better and bigger with out making it easier.

How hard would it be to make timers only appear if gold dust was added when making a key? Since gold dust has no value other then to make td more difficult to advance farther in smithing. Gold dust is NOT easy to get and can only be gotten from hours in Lab 3 or in the 70 Lizard Man quest, which is also hard and time consuming. Those who are fine making keys the old way can and those who NEED timers can put in the work to get gold dust OR pay people to get gold dust for them :D. It fits with the mechanics idea of BM, like stat totems or hunting tokens for leveling, you have to put in hours of work of preparation to make geo looting effective at higher levels.

Just my two cents. :D.

iresh
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:51 am

Re: Geomancy Key Life

Post by iresh » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:34 am

we found a real way of handling this but the point still stays without bathroys !00% ok on this it not being scripted and it not being scripted until the map issue is taken care of. as a Player said to me leaving things in a unfinished state is not good for the server.

took2summit
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 12:07 am

Re: Geomancy Key Life

Post by took2summit » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:16 am

Hadassah, this suggestion doesnt make the game any easier. If someone wants to grind 30 straight hours in a 3k deep skeleton geo what exactly has been made easier for them, no one is going to do that. Skiller keys will still only get their 3-4 dlvl usefulness as running the same skiller more than that would be a waste of time. You really think if people already dont run 3k deep skeleton geo because it takes 10 hours, that they will suddenly spend MORE than 10 hours? Isnt logical at all.

Haddassah
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:16 pm

Re: Geomancy Key Life

Post by Haddassah » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:39 pm

Took I think it's a great suggestion and a form of it at minimum should be included. I also think being DC'ed needs to be addressed as it's stopping the game from being played. I also see Zap's point. I already will leave anywhere from 13-25 (roughly 10-20%) mobs in a geo if I can't figure out the maze fast enough because it's WAY more gold per hour efficient for me to do so and if I could just reto and restart my geo instead that would be even better. If it was up to me though I would put your idea in as is, but it's not. Just my job to try and help those working on the game get ideas for solutions.
iresh wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:34 am
we found a real way of handling this but the point still stays without bathroys 100% ok on this it not being scripted and it not being scripted until the map issue is taken care of. as a Player said to me leaving things in a unfinished state is not good for the server.
Also it sounds like we need to help give ideas on the map if we want this key idea in game :)

POTUS
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:28 pm

Re: Geomancy Key Life

Post by POTUS » Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:40 pm

Why add more content when old content needs addressed. Unfinished.

Post Reply